Proposition 1 to place the Methow Aquatics District on the November ballot

[Fun CH]

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I wont be engaging, further, with you on this topic. You evidently don’t/cant/wont understand what other people write. Posting your same tired and illogical argument, repeatedly, doesn’t make it any more cogent or true. It is just boring.
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you have said that before after repeatedly insulting me and calling me derogatory names. So, please, please lets hope its true this time.

In case you are interested your argument is a logical fallacy known as false equivalency.

Jim, there is a difference between how the States and the federal government allocate money towards Recreation vs. this local boondoggle.

With the state and federal government we, as in everyone in the Country, pay for those services and officials that we the people elect make the decisions.

Somehow you can't seem to make a distinction between that tax structure and placing the tax burden on one School District's worth of property owners to forever pay for a mega spa project, and who knows what else, without further voter input.

Everyone uses and benefits from public land whether they they know it or not. That's why everyone pays for it.

And I do believe a Metropolitan Park District can buy Recreational Equipment or lease vendor space and rent it out. They may even have a speedo in your size.

[just-jim]

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Bad logic, Chris….and an even worse analogy. But one that illustrates my point well…yet, again.

The land base that you refer to, whether State or Federally managed, along with the accompanying road/trail infrastructure where you enjoy your bicycling – an activity ‘essential’ to you maybe, but NOT or me - was paid for by ALL and is enjoyed by you and a relatively small number of other people, even though it IS available to all. And it’s continues to be managed and maintained by ALL - yet enjoyed by an very small number of people. EXACTLY like the use of a pool; paid for and available to all, but used, ‘un-essentially’, by a smaller number than paid for it.

You buying a bicycle to use is just like someone buying swim gear or buying swim lessons. That purchase is your, and their, ‘skin in the game’. No one expects taxpayers to buy you a bike – or a swimsuit. But…nice try at bad logic.

Now – for the nth time: We ALL get to pay for things that all, some - or even few - of us WANT to use or GET to use, but ARE available to all. And those are things that are both essential, or not, regardless of how ‘essential’ is defined, or who is defining it.

I get that you don’t like it. I don’t much either – and again - I’m still unsure how I will vote. But, the “I don’t use it, therefore I shouldn’t pay” logic isn’t the right way to look at it; THAT argument doesn’t hold water.

I wont be engaging, further, with you on this topic. You evidently don’t/cant/wont understand what other people write. Posting your same tired and illogical argument, repeatedly, doesn’t make it any more cogent or true. It is just boring.
.

[Fun CH]

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Nice try Chris.

Let’s go back to my original comment to Jingle’s post:

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Very simple solution
Those that want and use the pool pay for the pool those of us that don't necessarily want or ever use a pool get a free pass from having to pay for something we don't want or use.
But then that is common sense and common sense has been laid to rest long ago.

Using that logic….after living here for 45 years….I would NEVER have paid for:

- any School or any of it’s associated facilities.
- any ORV or snowmobile facilities
- any ambulance services
- any Search and Rescue services
- any cemetery services - (at least so far!)

I don’t yet know how I will vote on this pool idea….I go back and forth in my head about it. But the idea that “I dont want to pay for something I won’t use” it’s the wrong way to look at it, I think.
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…….and after many posts, by you, Chris, you never managed to prove my points wrong. Also, please note, that I NEVER once MENTIONED “essential” services in this post. You did, Chris. And that is one of the kinda sneaky – and frankly intellectually dishonest - things you sometimes do when you find yourself losing an argument here; you very slowly and very slightly change the definitions, the basis of the argument or its terms

In this case you, Chris, not I, introduced the adjective “essential” and then have gone on to argue on THAT basis.

You should realize, I think, that term ‘essential’ is a relative term. What is ’essential’ to you, Chris, may not be ‘essential’ to me or someone else. Many might consider a library un-essential (I don’t). Certainly there is NOTHING essential about a cemetery district – people die and are buried in many places without public assistance. Ditto the ‘conservation tax’ and the weed-control district…,.another nice to have, but not essential services. And neither is a ‘hospital District’ is essential. Some people MIGHT even think public support for public lands may or may not be ‘essential’ - even though I do. These are all: nice to have and maybe easier to pay for this way…but NOT essential.

Whether that includes a pool…..it’s a VERY slight maybe for me, but might even be ‘essential’ according to others.
See, Chris….the world doesn’t revolve on the adjectives you want to use.

For your enlightenment, Chris…my point again: We ALL get to pay for stuff that we may or may not want/like/use – REGARDLESS of whether YOU consider them essential OR NOT.

It’s kind of basic democracy….which is why we vote on it.
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Jim there's a difference between essential services that serve the public good and what a person may consider essential for their needs.

I need to ride a bicycle to keep my arthritis pain in check and I'm sure there are a few people who benefit from swimming for their arthritis.

Does that mean that the public has to foot the bill for a 20+ million spa compex with a $600,000 yearly maintenance cost to serve the individual needs of a few? This proposal isn't being built as a medical Rehabilitation Center.

Or maybe you support buying bicycles for everyone with your tax dollars because to me and a few others a bicycle is essential.

At any rate I hope people support the August 1st one year Levy for Three Rivers Hospital, because that severs everyone in the community. That levy does bring home the point that we need to save our tax dollars for essential services that benefit everyone.

[pasayten]

https://www.newsbreak.com/@pasayten-172 ... mp_1725429

[Fun CH]

One reason I don't think this whole idea should be brutally dismissed out of hand is the climate and environmental trends here. We are losing a significant number of active outdoor days to either heat waves or wildfire smoke, so having some safe indoor alternatives for physical activity might well be a good idea. What might seem like a ridiculous and extravagant luxury in 2023 might be a necessity in 2030. And if we waited until we really, really needed that indoor exercise facility we probably would need to wait another five years or more for any solution.

And yes, a pool is a luxury. But so are public parks. And if you look at our schools, a pretty significant portion of their budget is spent on school sports -- in most schools more funds are budgeted for sports than for math or science or english. Yes, participants also have to pay but the school still subsidizes things like football teams to a remarkable degree.

Tell me exactly which local parks are on my property tax bill?

I would argue that tearing down the old and building new contributes to global climate change, especially when using vast amounts of concrete and asphalt. So it's ironic that you would advocate for building new stuff to mitigate the smoke from the very thing that the new stuff is creating. But yea, lets use more fossil fuels to create someone's dream playground and use more fossil fuel to drive people there from hundreds of miles away.

And yes, I'll gladly contribute to our schools, but this project is not a school, its a mega luxury 2 pool and spa plaything in a building.

Nature is outside folks.

"They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swiming* hot spot"- Joni Mitchell



*Original word Swinging

[pasayten]

Here is a poster to print and pass around...

nopooltaxes.pdf

(230.73 KiB) Downloaded 528 times

[pasayten]

http://nopooltaxes.com

[PAL]

Doesn't anyone care if your taxes go up more because of this? I know some property owners that are barely making it. They are service workers.
Let's tax the heck out of property owners for this aquatics center. There can be an outdoor pool that can eventually be made into an indoor pool, but no gotta have it now.
Maybe the "essential" arguement doesn't work, let's say. I still say no permanent increase in our property taxes because of the aquatics center!

[just-jim]

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Nice try Chris.

Let’s go back to my original comment to Jingle’s post:

.

Very simple solution
Those that want and use the pool pay for the pool those of us that don't necessarily want or ever use a pool get a free pass from having to pay for something we don't want or use.
But then that is common sense and common sense has been laid to rest long ago.

Using that logic….after living here for 45 years….I would NEVER have paid for:

- any School or any of it’s associated facilities.
- any ORV or snowmobile facilities
- any ambulance services
- any Search and Rescue services
- any cemetery services - (at least so far!)

I don’t yet know how I will vote on this pool idea….I go back and forth in my head about it. But the idea that “I dont want to pay for something I won’t use” it’s the wrong way to look at it, I think.
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…….and after many posts, by you, Chris, you never managed to prove my points wrong. Also, please note, that I NEVER once MENTIONED “essential” services in this post. You did, Chris. And that is one of the kinda sneaky – and frankly intellectually dishonest - things you sometimes do when you find yourself losing an argument here; you very slowly and very slightly change the definitions, the basis of the argument or its terms

In this case you, Chris, not I, introduced the adjective “essential” and then have gone on to argue on THAT basis.

You should realize, I think, that term ‘essential’ is a relative term. What is ’essential’ to you, Chris, may not be ‘essential’ to me or someone else. Many might consider a library un-essential (I don’t). Certainly there is NOTHING essential about a cemetery district – people die and are buried in many places without public assistance. Ditto the ‘conservation tax’ and the weed-control district…,.another nice to have, but not essential services. And neither is a ‘hospital District’ is essential. Some people MIGHT even think public support for public lands may or may not be ‘essential’ - even though I do. These are all: nice to have and maybe easier to pay for this way…but NOT essential.

Whether that includes a pool…..it’s a VERY slight maybe for me, but might even be ‘essential’ according to others.
See, Chris….the world doesn’t revolve on the adjectives you want to use.

For your enlightenment, Chris…my point again: We ALL get to pay for stuff that we may or may not want/like/use – REGARDLESS of whether YOU consider them essential OR NOT.

It’s kind of basic democracy….which is why we vote on it.
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[Fun CH]

Then, let's say the tax is to help pay for a close to $21 million facility. Whether I use it or not doesn't matter. The property owners are the ones paying a share, like we do, while others do not pay the tax at all. If Friends of the Pool are looking for something equitable, a recreation distric is not the way.
Now, if the whole county were to be taxed for the pool, that is a different story. But the tax payers of the county would certainly not go for this.
There are alot of unknowns still.
The price tag may be even more than that.
With property taxes already high, how much more can people keep shelling out.
Will teams really come here to rent the pool out and when they rent it out, that means it is closed to the public. I suppose they are thinking it could be an economic generator for the Valley, but I have serious doubts.
No on the taxing district.

I agree. In the last go round The Metropolitan Park District was billed as good for the tourist economy. So tourists will be using the pool that they didn't fund. Maybe the taxpayers of the entire state with federal government grant support would be more appropriate than placing the burden on the a limited area local taxpayer?

I guess we have to ask how many more tourists do we really need in this area? And do we want our tax dollars to help the hotel industry here make even more profit? The result will be building more hotels.

To me this is moral issue between the Have Nots and those that Have and always Want More, even taking money from the Have Nots to pay for their pleasure.

That opinion is based upon the fact that 20% of the people living in the taxing district are living at or below poverty level (sourse FOP study).

[Fun CH]

In the differences you point out - you fail to see the exact point I have been making all along - there isn’t ANY difference between “essential” services and luxury services - your term.

Take a look at your property tax bill. Now look at the current year distribution taxes and miscellaneous assessments. Those are what I would call "Essential Services". They are essential for the health and well-being of every citizen in this community. They include County Road, EMS, fire, Hospital Library, Local Schools, weed control, DNR Fire Control, and conservation.

An indoor pool and spa complex is a luxury service. That facility includes a lap pool, a separate heated pool, a hot tube, showers, changing rooms, and most likely a snack bar where your favorite vanilla chai cinnamon stick tea or low fat milk cappuccino will be available for your pleasure, and of course hot chocolate.

https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/ ... l-service/

"In a broad sense, essential services are those “daily services essential to preserving life, health, public safety and basic societal functioning"

The dictionary defines the luxury as;

"something adding to pleasure or comfort but not absolutely necessary."

Can you see the difference Jim?

[PAL]

Thanks Ray for doing this. This is what has to be done to educate people what they are already paying for. I'll be passing these links on.

[pasayten]

Everybody is invited to comment/post on the nopooltaxes blog page!

https://chewack.com/nopooltaxes/blog-page/

I also started a Facebook Page...

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100094094394835

[PAL]

Then, let's say the tax is to help pay for a close to $21 million facility. Whether I use it or not doesn't matter. The property owners are the ones paying a share, like we do, while others do not pay the tax at all. If Friends of the Pool are looking for something equitable, a recreation distric is not the way.
Now, if the whole county were to be taxed for the pool, that is a different story. But the tax payers of the county would certainly not go for this.
There are alot of unknowns still.
The price tag may be even more than that.
With property taxes already high, how much more can people keep shelling out.
Will teams really come here to rent the pool out and when they rent it out, that means it is closed to the public. I suppose they are thinking it could be an economic generator for the Valley, but I have serious doubts.
No on the taxing district.

[just-jim]

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I calmly and plainly point out both your factual fallacies ….and your logical ones….and “WTF is wrong with me”?

Wow…this just gets more amusing.

I am sorry that you don’t understand the difference between “we get ½ our funding from your taxes”, and ’3% of County property taxes fund EMS services’. It cant be any more plain.

You might also acknowledge that you were wrong about the ownership the Brewster Hospital, but I don’t expect you will. And that I was correct about the Cemetery District, also.

Apparently you are allowed to repeatedly dog, criticize, badger, put words in people’s mouths (and obfuscate) others – repeatedly, ad nauseam et ad infinitum - even when you are wrong. (You know….. the behavior that got you booted from 3 bulletin boards?) BUT, when you are on the receiving end - you get all hurt and pissy….‘wah wah wah - you are picking on me!!!”. Someone has pretty thin skin.

You examples of x-c ski trails and snowmobile trails illustrate my point EXACTLY! Thanks.

Other than the actual daily on-snow grooming, ALL of the roads that are groomed for snowmobiling were constructed and maintained by US taxpayers…all 300+ million of them. As were ALL the roads and almost all the trails that are on the NF lands that Methow Trails grooms….those trails/roads were - again - paid for by US taxpayers. And those taxpayers have paid for 100+ years of maintenance and stewardship (e.g. fire protection, etc) of both the underlying and surrounding land base. And only a small percentage of those 300 million taxpayers will ever get to use those trail/roads in the summer….and an even smaller number will do so in the winter. EXACTLY my point – we ALL get to pay for stuff we never get to use!

Ditto for public campgrounds, of course. What you pay - pays for the ‘maintenance’, but many taxpayers will NEVER get to camp in them….even though but ALL the US taxpayers paid for the construction of those facilities.

Another round-about example – this is exactly why 20 years ago that the permanent legislation that required recreation fees on the National Forests was proposed by a Senator from Ohio. Why should his poorer constituents – ones who live far from public lands and may never get to enjoy them - be required to underwrite the ‘luxury’ leisure sports of those well enough off to live here – like you and me - for free?

Yes, I too graduated from public schools. And I too have voted FOR every school, EMS, hospital and library levy I’ve been faced with..…even IF I don’t use them. But not all the fire district (or proposed Rec District) levies – for a variety of reasons.

I’m glad you see it my way…good that you came around!

Caveat - for the THIRD time - I’ll say I dont know how I will vote on this propositions. Ive voted against it before.
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I don't see it your way as Im not into your kind of divisive derogatory attack rhetoric and your need to challenge right wingers with your misinformed views.x

The budget I posted for Areo Methow speaks for itself. They are a private company set up to be a non-profit. I believe that's pretty clear.

You don't seem be able to differentiate between essential services that benefit everyone versus luxury services that only benefit a few and hurt the poor in this Valley.
That is defined as living at or below the poverty level and identified identified by the friends of a pool study as 20% of the MPD Voting District.

Now please put me back on ignore and announce it to the Forum like you always do. I only quoted you to support Jingles POV post against your nonsense.

In the differences you point out - you fail to see the exact point I have been making all along - there isn’t ANY difference between “essential” services and luxury services - your term. WE ALL PAY, CONTINUALLY AND AT EVERY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT FOR SERVICES - BOTH ESSENTIAL AND NOT - WHICH WE MAY NOT FREQUENTLY USE.

I dont know what part of the METHOW EMS District “gets about 50% of its funding from taxpayers” that is so difficult for you to understand. It is a taxing district which contracts with a private firm to provide a service.

Beyond that - it appears that you dont like someone following you around taking a big old stinky sh+t in the middle of each and every one of your posts in every thread, right? Even when you have your basic facts wrong.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! - now you know how EVERY other reader and poster here feels about your antics.
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[PAL]

That's one of the questions a friend of mine has asked Friends of the Pool. Awaiting her info.

[realoldtimer]

Wondering what would happen to the Park District if the Aquatic Center didn't get built?

Seems like it would continue on regardless. That's scary!

[Fun CH]

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I calmly and plainly point out both your factual fallacies ….and your logical ones….and “WTF is wrong with me”?

Wow…this just gets more amusing.

I am sorry that you don’t understand the difference between “we get ½ our funding from your taxes”, and ’3% of County property taxes fund EMS services’. It cant be any more plain.

You might also acknowledge that you were wrong about the ownership the Brewster Hospital, but I don’t expect you will. And that I was correct about the Cemetery District, also.

Apparently you are allowed to repeatedly dog, criticize, badger, put words in people’s mouths (and obfuscate) others – repeatedly, ad nauseam et ad infinitum - even when you are wrong. (You know….. the behavior that got you booted from 3 bulletin boards?) BUT, when you are on the receiving end - you get all hurt and pissy….‘wah wah wah - you are picking on me!!!”. Someone has pretty thin skin.

You examples of x-c ski trails and snowmobile trails illustrate my point EXACTLY! Thanks.

Other than the actual daily on-snow grooming, ALL of the roads that are groomed for snowmobiling were constructed and maintained by US taxpayers…all 300+ million of them. As were ALL the roads and almost all the trails that are on the NF lands that Methow Trails grooms….those trails/roads were - again - paid for by US taxpayers. And those taxpayers have paid for 100+ years of maintenance and stewardship (e.g. fire protection, etc) of both the underlying and surrounding land base. And only a small percentage of those 300 million taxpayers will ever get to use those trail/roads in the summer….and an even smaller number will do so in the winter. EXACTLY my point – we ALL get to pay for stuff we never get to use!

Ditto for public campgrounds, of course. What you pay - pays for the ‘maintenance’, but many taxpayers will NEVER get to camp in them….even though but ALL the US taxpayers paid for the construction of those facilities.

Another round-about example – this is exactly why 20 years ago that the permanent legislation that required recreation fees on the National Forests was proposed by a Senator from Ohio. Why should his poorer constituents – ones who live far from public lands and may never get to enjoy them - be required to underwrite the ‘luxury’ leisure sports of those well enough off to live here – like you and me - for free?

Yes, I too graduated from public schools. And I too have voted FOR every school, EMS, hospital and library levy I’ve been faced with..…even IF I don’t use them. But not all the fire district (or proposed Rec District) levies – for a variety of reasons.

I’m glad you see it my way…good that you came around!

Caveat - for the THIRD time - I’ll say I dont know how I will vote on this propositions. Ive voted against it before.
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I don't see it your way as Im not into your kind of divisive derogatory attack rhetoric and your need to challenge right wingers with your misinformed views.x

The budget I posted for Areo Methow speaks for itself. They are a private company set up to be a non-profit. I believe that's pretty clear.

You don't seem be able to differentiate between essential services that benefit everyone versus luxury services that only benefit a few and hurt the poor in this Valley.
That is defined as living at or below the poverty level and identified identified by the friends of a pool study as 20% of the MPD Voting District.

Now please put me back on ignore and announce it to the Forum like you always do. I only quoted you to support Jingles POV post against your nonsense.

[just-jim]

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I calmly and plainly point out both your factual fallacies ….and your logical ones….and “WTF is wrong with me”?

Wow…this just gets more amusing.

I am sorry that you don’t understand the difference between “we get ½ our funding from your taxes”, and ’3% of County property taxes fund EMS services’. It cant be any more plain.

You might also acknowledge that you were wrong about the ownership the Brewster Hospital, but I don’t expect you will. And that I was correct about the Cemetery District, also.

Apparently you are allowed to repeatedly dog, criticize, badger, put words in people’s mouths (and obfuscate) others – repeatedly, ad nauseam et ad infinitum - even when you are wrong. (You know….. the behavior that got you booted from 3 bulletin boards?) BUT, when you are on the receiving end - you get all hurt and pissy….‘wah wah wah - you are picking on me!!!”. Someone has pretty thin skin.

You examples of x-c ski trails and snowmobile trails illustrate my point EXACTLY! Thanks.

Other than the actual daily on-snow grooming, ALL of the roads that are groomed for snowmobiling were constructed and maintained by US taxpayers…all 300+ million of them. As were ALL the roads and almost all the trails that are on the NF lands that Methow Trails grooms….those trails/roads were - again - paid for by US taxpayers. And those taxpayers have paid for 100+ years of maintenance and stewardship (e.g. fire protection, etc) of both the underlying and surrounding land base. And only a small percentage of those 300 million taxpayers will ever get to use those trail/roads in the summer….and an even smaller number will do so in the winter. EXACTLY my point – we ALL get to pay for stuff we never get to use!

Ditto for public campgrounds, of course. What you pay - pays for the ‘maintenance’, but many taxpayers will NEVER get to camp in them….even though but ALL the US taxpayers paid for the construction of those facilities.

Another round-about example – this is exactly why 20 years ago that the permanent legislation that required recreation fees on the National Forests was proposed by a Senator from Ohio. Why should his poorer constituents – ones who live far from public lands and may never get to enjoy them - be required to underwrite the ‘luxury’ leisure sports of those well enough off to live here – like you and me - for free?

Yes, I too graduated from public schools. And I too have voted FOR every school, EMS, hospital and library levy I’ve been faced with..…even IF I don’t use them. But not all the fire district (or proposed Rec District) levies – for a variety of reasons.

I’m glad you see it my way…good that you came around!

Caveat - for the THIRD time - I’ll say I dont know how I will vote on this propositions. Ive voted against it before.
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[Fun CH]

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Once again CH is making stuff up…..

From 3 Rivers Hospital website: “Three Rivers Hospital is a public, not-for-profit Critical Access Hospital serving a district bridging Okanogan and Douglas counties, from Mazama to Monse to Mansfield.”

It is not a private business.

From the AMRS website: “Funding Structure. Aero Methow Rescue Service is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Our financial information can be found on Guidestar. About half of the operating expenses for AMRS are supported by local taxpayers through Emergency Medical Services levies in the Methow Valley and cities of Winthrop and Twisp.”
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I’ll stand by man original comment: that we all pay - willingly or not - for stuff we dont use. Like those things and In my case schools and a cemetery district. To the tune of about $1900 for my place.

So - using your twisted logic……,where do I get my refunds for the past 45 years?
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I guess I'll have to accept that you just can't stop insulting me and others, (like half the country). WTF is wrong with you? Please place me back on ignore.

I have no problem paying for essential services that I use or may need. But I'm not going to pay for your luxury indoor hot tub and Spa experience.

When I ski on the Methow trail system I pay for that service. If you don't ski the Methow Trails you don't pay for that grooming service.

When I snowmobile the fees that are collected for registration pay for the grooming. If you don't snowmobile you don't pay for that service.

When I park at a state or federal Trailhead the fees that I pay are collected for that service to use the facilities, and I pay taxes that further support public land. If you don't park you don't pay for that service.

I pay to camp at a public land campground. If you don't Camp you don't pay for that service.

My Elementary and high school were paid for by taxes so I expect that I would have to pay taxes to support schools. I vote for school levies.

For the hospitals my insurance company pays the bills there, they are not free. I vote for Hospital levies.

My insurance company pays the bills for the local medical Clinic.

And Areo Methow is a private nonprofit company. You will be billed for transport services rendered. I vote for Areo Methow levies. 3% of Okanogan County Property taxes are for Emergency Medical Services

Here is their funding structure.

https://www.aeromethow.org/tax-levy

2021 – varies each year pending events, donations, and grants

44.8% -- Contract with EMS District
18.4% -- Fees for services – transports
9.6% -- Other Contracts – USFS or DNR wildfire (when needed and only locally) Okanogan County Public Health – when needed for pandemic response
24.5% -- Donations and Memorials
2.3% -- Grants
Other Numbers
3% of Okanogan County Property taxes are for Emergency Medical Services
In comparison:
Fire Districts – 4%
Hospitals – 9%
Library – 3%
Cost - $.50/$1,000 of assessed property value"

[just-jim]

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Once again CH is making stuff up…..

From 3 Rivers Hospital website: “Three Rivers Hospital is a public, not-for-profit Critical Access Hospital serving a district bridging Okanogan and Douglas counties, from Mazama to Monse to Mansfield.”

It is not a private business.

From the AMRS website: “Funding Structure. Aero Methow Rescue Service is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Our financial information can be found on Guidestar. About half of the operating expenses for AMRS are supported by local taxpayers through Emergency Medical Services levies in the Methow Valley and cities of Winthrop and Twisp.”
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I’ll stand by man original comment: that we all pay - willingly or not - for stuff we dont use. Like those things and In my case schools and a cemetery district. To the tune of about $1900 for my place.

So - using your twisted logic……,where do I get my refunds for the past 45 years?
.

[Fun CH]

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Oh, hell…once again- I mistakenly and regrettably - decided to look at a CH response to my post.

He IS good at ‘doing CH’ - which is forming a very weak stance, which I didn’t take, then trying to topple it…..

NOWHERE did I bring up the adequacy of “business plans”, elective vs appointed positions, governance, or the exact name or arrangement of the laws….

I stated - pretty clearly, I thought - that I didnt, yet, know how I would vote on this matter.

What I WAS trying to point out, and ALL I was pointing out, was the logical fallacy of Jingles’s statements - which is essentially “if I dont use it I shouldn’t have to pay for it”. And that this wasn’t, maybe, the right way to look at the issue at hand…..

Evidently, however, CH has never looked at his own property tax statement!
If he had he would know that he pays - willingly or not and whether or not he uses such services - for;

- A Hospital District (Brewster) that has an elected Board,
- A Cemetery District that has an elected Board,
- An ambulance/Rescue service that has a Board appointed by the County Commissioners.

I think Ray is right. There is some public display of self gratification going on here….

Back. On. Ignore.
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main point is that you are conflating necessary services with luxury dreams.

The local Areo Methow ambulance and Rescue service is a private non profit organization. The 3% of their operating budget that they collect from our taxes goes to Emergency Medical Services.

Three Rivers Hospital in Brewster is a private non-profit organization.

Mid Valley Hospital in Omak is a privately owned business.

Jingles made a valid point that you tried to shot down with poor reasoning. Attacking me, like you always seem to do, only means that you can't put together a cogent argument to defend that poor reasoning.

Most of us don't desire to pay for other people's luxury Recreation. A heated pool and hot tub facility certainly qualifies as a luxury.

I vote in favor of all levys that support the schools and people's health and safety needs such as the new Firehouse.

I assume more tax money will be needed in the future for necessary services. Lets save our money for those critical needs instead of pouring it down a big hole in the ground.

[just-jim]

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Oh, hell…once again- I mistakenly and regrettably - decided to look at a CH response to my post.

He IS good at ‘doing CH’ - which is forming a very weak stance, which I didn’t take, then trying to topple it…..

NOWHERE did I bring up the adequacy of “business plans”, elective vs appointed positions, governance, or the exact name or arrangement of the laws….

I stated - pretty clearly, I thought - that I didnt, yet, know how I would vote on this matter.

What I WAS trying to point out, and ALL I was pointing out, was the logical fallacy of Jingles’s statements - which is essentially “if I dont use it I shouldn’t have to pay for it”. And that this wasn’t, maybe, the right way to look at the issue at hand…..

Evidently, however, CH has never looked at his own property tax statement!
If he had he would know that he pays - willingly or not and whether or not he uses such services - for;

- A Hospital District (Brewster) that has an elected Board,
- A Cemetery District that has an elected Board,
- An ambulance/Rescue service that has a Board appointed by the County Commissioners.

I think Ray is right. There is some public display of self gratification going on here….

Back. On. Ignore.
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[Fun CH]

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Very simple solution
Those that want and use the pool pay for the pool those of us that don't necessarily want or ever use a pool get a free pass from having to pay for something we don't want or use.
But then that is common sense and common sense has been laid to rest long ago.

Using that logic….after living here for 45 years….I would NEVER have paid for:

- any School or any of it’s associated facilities.
- any ORV or snowmobile facilities
- any ambulance services
- any Search and Rescue services
- any cemetery services - (at least so far!)

I don’t yet know how I will vote on this pool idea….I go back and forth in my head about it. But the idea that “I dont want to pay for something I won’t use” it’s the wrong way to look at it, I think.
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Jim, you are conflating facilities and services that governmental angencies provide that has oversight by our elected officials with a proposal to create a non governmental taxing body.

Also many ambulance services and most all Healthcare Services are private and charge accordingly.

If it is a choice between taxing the elderly and the not so wealthy people on limited incomes versus a luxury Indoor Aquatic Center, I'm going to choose not increasing taxes on the elderly and not so wealthy on fixed or limited incomes.

Personally I prefer having enough money to buy food and receive proper Medical Care then a dip in a hot tub.

And doesn't it bother you that this whole project proposal doesn't have a business plan, as David pointed out? They do know how much money they're going to need to build and maintain the luxury indoor pool and spa facility while telling the voter that they don't want their taxes increased either so they won't be asking for much.

They've already demonstrated a non-professional approach to this project proposal. They want the voter to trust them and if you don't they will characterize you as being "paranoid" (a derogatory word used by a supporter in the June 22nd MVN editorial).

Doesn't it bother you that this project proposal is being misrepresented as a "type of Metropolitan Park District" when there is no such thing as a "type" of Metropolitan Park District.

This project is clearly asking for the formation of a Metropolitan Park District which has all the powers defined by Washington state law including the right to eminent domain.

In short, once again this project is being misrepresented to the voter.

[just-jim]

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Very simple solution
Those that want and use the pool pay for the pool those of us that don't necessarily want or ever use a pool get a free pass from having to pay for something we don't want or use.
But then that is common sense and common sense has been laid to rest long ago.

Using that logic….after living here for 45 years….I would NEVER have paid for:

- any School or any of it’s associated facilities.
- any ORV or snowmobile facilities
- any ambulance services
- any Search and Rescue services
- any cemetery services - (at least so far!)

I don’t yet know how I will vote on this pool idea….I go back and forth in my head about it. But the idea that “I dont want to pay for something I won’t use” it’s the wrong way to look at it, I think.
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