Getting the Aquatics District facts out to folks

[pasayten]

Looks like FOTP blocked me from their Facebook page... They must have not liked my comments correcting their information...

[pasayten]

Yes... The Aquatics District is a classic cart before the horse situation...

No approved final pool design yet...
No true calculated operations costs yet...
No interlocal agreement yet...

They just want a guaranteed big fat Blank Check right now...

How can Proposition 1 verbage legally reference an Interlocal Agreement that has not been created yet???

[pasayten]

[pasayten]

Tomorrow, more word will start to be getting out to folks... My birthday surprise...

Let's work towards another 78% - 22% defeat for Proposition 1 in November...

Then maybe FOTP can re-group and come up with a better funding plan that is not on the back of the taxpayers. They say they won't try... The pool is done. That defeatist attitude speaks a lot as to how important the mega complex really is to the community.

[Fun CH]

This is the actual full text of the Proposition 1 measure...

Full Text of Measure: Proposition1.
[Methow Aquatics District].

A petition of the voters has been submitted concerning formation of a metropolitan park district. If approved, this proposition would create a district under chapter 35.61RCW, to be known as the Methow Aquatics District, to provide on going funding to develop, construct, operate, and maintain the Methow Aquatics Center and related existing and future facilities. The District would have the powers provided under chapter 35.61RCW, excluding eminent domain, but including, among others, to levy regular property taxes up to 75 cents per $1,000 assessed value, and its boundaries would be coterminous with the boundaries of Methow Valley School District 350.

The District would be governed by a five member board appointed by the Okanogan County Commission and the Twisp and Winthrop Town Councils as provided by interlocal agreement approved by the three jurisdictions.

- For the formation of a metropolitan park district to be governed by aboard appointed by the Okanogan County Commission and Twisp and Winthrop Town Councils

- Against the formation of a metropolitan park district.

Quote:

"to provide on going funding to develop, construct, operate, and maintain the Methow Aquatics Center and related existing and future facilities. "

Interesting. Again no transparency to the voter as to what those future facilities will be.

Any recreational building like climbing wall, bowling alley or roller skating rink could be related and constructed and maintained with taxpayer money.

We already know they want to build a house for the manager and dormitory rooms which will be for visiting tourists and not connected in any way with affordable housing like they are trying to sell it.

Also consider that two of the FOP board members, Bo Thrasher and Blu Bradley, have a vested interest in commercial mountain guiding in the North Cascades; ie North Cascade Mountain Guides and North Cascade Heli skiing. Both companies having in the past been found to be in non-compliance with their Forest Service special use permits.

The NCH permit was placed on a 5-year probation for illegally cutting down white bark pine trees in order to create unauthorized helicopter landing sites. At the time in 2012, White Bark pine trees were federally listed as a sensitive species and now listed as threatened. They had no problem destroying those trees to support their self interest gains while trying to place all the blame on their helicopter pilot. They also paid a slap on the wrist $6,000 restoration fee.

The 5 year Permit probation was incurred only after NCH did not come clean to the FS as to the extent of their illegal cutting as more undisclosed illegal cutting sites were discovered by concerned citizens and reported to the forest service.

NCMG, which shares a common owner with NCH, Paul Butler (married to Bo), was caught guiding out of their permitted area and received a forest service warning letter. Blu (publically caught spreading misinformation on recreational districts ) is married to NCMG part owner Larry Goldie.

I wouldn't be surprised if the mega 2 pool/ Spa and related facilities are constructed in Winthrop or Mazama even though this is being billed as replacing the Wagner pool.

Remember it was Paul Butler who supported the creation of a MPD the last time this measure was placed on the ballot and defeated 78% to 22%. This obviously beyond wealthy fellow wrote a patronizing letter to the MVN editor wanting local taxpayers to build a soccer field for his daughter.

Why would anyone trust these folks with virtually unlimited tax dollars and non voter controlled power? Tax dollars are needed for critical services here in our valley, now and in the future, not luxury playgrounds.

(Edit for spelling)

[pasayten]

This is the actual full text of the Proposition 1 measure...

Full Text of Measure: Proposition1.
[Methow Aquatics District].

A petition of the voters has been submitted concerning formation of a metropolitan park district. If approved, this proposition would create a district under chapter 35.61RCW, to be known as the Methow Aquatics District, to provide on going funding to develop, construct, operate, and maintain the Methow Aquatics Center and related existing and future facilities. The District would have the powers provided under chapter 35.61RCW, excluding eminent domain, but including, among others, to levy regular property taxes up to 75 cents per $1,000 assessed value, and its boundaries would be coterminous with the boundaries of Methow Valley School District 350.

The District would be governed by a five member board appointed by the Okanogan County Commission and the Twisp and Winthrop Town Councils as provided by interlocal agreement approved by the three jurisdictions.

- For the formation of a metropolitan park district to be governed by aboard appointed by the Okanogan County Commission and Twisp and Winthrop Town Councils

- Against the formation of a metropolitan park district.

[Fun CH]

[

Oh and don't forget those huge sliding glass doors that simulate being outside but will undoubtedly exclude homeless people looking to escape the summer heat and smoke when that becomes a public health concern.

As a liberal I deplore discrimination and inequities of any kind.

Then, obviously, Chris….your ONLY available choice, going forward, is to sell your home and your belongings and give all your $ to the poor. Then, dress yourself in rags, and wander, barefoot, with nothing more than a bowl and spoon. Because anything ELSE you do would CONTINUE to promote “discrimination and inequity”, right?

Let us know when you start. Then, stop by when you do so….I may have some cold, moldy, rice for your bowl.

As a liberal - I deplore hubris. And empty, meaningless, mendacious positions.
.

First lets establish that you are in favor of this proposition even though you say that you're undecided. That's pretty obvious from the quality of attacks that you launch in lieu of a cogent point.

Right now, if a low income person can't afford the pool entry fee, they have to go begging for charity at Room one for an entry voucher. That won't change if the mega spa complex is built. A liberal understands that begging degrades a human beings sense of self worth, sense of being and belonging.

Contrast that to a public library system where anyone can just walk in and enjoy the tax supported benefits. Everyone enters there on an equal footing.

A liberal would understand that. Are you sure you are a liberal because we stand up for the rights of people who don't have the resources to defend themselves against attacks from what I call the "takers".

I and many other construction workers that I know worked very hard in this Valley to literally help build this place. Wages were such that we didn't make a lot of money back then and we definitely dont have big tax supported government pensions that you most likely are drawing.

The properties we developed greatly increased the tax base for the State and County while greatly increasing the personal wealth of the families who purchased or funded the homes we constructed with our extremely hard physical labor and personal risk exposure.

Yes I'm proud of the work that we construction workers, loggers, miners, supply companies etc did and continue to do. So what? Mock that pride all you want Jim, it doesn't change what we accomplished.

I'd like to see this Valley continue with its Spirit of giving that was embodied by many people such as Local Hero John Hayes who just passed. The Conservancy of the Big Valley Ranch and many other projects is what he gave us.

The Wagner pool was developed in that spirit of giving as was the trail system, the ice rink, the land purchased and returned to the 1st Nation people, and the Sunny M ranch just to name a few.

Now the "takers" want to take much needed income from low income people while pretending that they are benefiting us to sell this boondoggle mega spa for their self interest gain. Anyone mention what they will be paying themselves with our hard earned tax dollars? No. they're not saying much, just a bunch of word salad selling points about how great and wonderful they are.

Yes Jim, it's unfortunate but people are displaced from their homes due to the ongoing western rural gentrification process that the "takers" exacerbate as taxes and rents increase. But you mock that also. Try walking in the shoes of people who have less.

[just-jim]

Oh and don't forget those huge sliding glass doors that simulate being outside but will undoubtedly exclude homeless people looking to escape the summer heat and smoke when that becomes a public health concern.

As a liberal I deplore discrimination and inequities of any kind.

Then, obviously, Chris….your ONLY available choice, going forward, is to sell your home and your belongings and give all your $ to the poor. Then, dress yourself in rags, and wander, barefoot, with nothing more than a bowl and spoon. Because anything ELSE you do would CONTINUE to promote “discrimination and inequity”, right?

Let us know when you start. Then, stop by when you do so….I may have some cold, moldy, rice for your bowl.

As a liberal - I deplore hubris. And empty, meaningless, mendacious positions.
.

[PAL]

Did not get paper today. Will tomorrow. Wondering if there will be some rebuttals.

[pasayten]

Any Pool subject Letters to the Editor in today's MVN?

[Fun CH]

.My point was that, in contrast to some of the posts here, there was no clandestine group operating under cover of darkness and springing this on unsuspecting voters at the 11th hour.

Jim, you sure like to make things up to support your opinion.

No one stated or implied that the FOP is a "clandestine group operating under cover of darkness and springing this on unsuspecting voters at the 11th hour."

They are not however being transparent, and have even gone so far as to decieve voters with misinformation.

Not a good start in building community trust, which is paramount when asking Property Owners (especially those with Low income)to fund your dream mega indoor heated 2 pool and spa complex.

Oh and don't forget those huge sliding glass doors that simulate being outside but will undoubtedly exclude homeless people looking to escape the summer heat and smoke when that becomes a public health concern.

As a liberal I deplore discrimination and inequities of any kind.

[pasayten]

Jim,

Yep... and if Proposition 1 is on the ballot in November, I will be voting a big NO...

And in the meantime, I hope to be able to inform and convince enough other voters to do the same.

This is how the system works...

[just-jim]

.
Ray - I don’t disagree with most of your points. The proponents have, for sure, chosen some odd - to me - features to incorporate into their proposal; ones that might, likely, be a fatal blow to their plans.

My point was that, in contrast to some of the posts here, there was no clandestine group operating under cover of darkness and springing this on unsuspecting voters at the 11th hour.

The objection that ‘I dont read the MVNews’ is not on them; it is on you.
Part of participating in local democracy is keeping yourself informed about what’s going on around you. Around here the MVNews is maybe the best way to that. Besides which…. supporting local, independent, journalism - especially PRINT journalism - is a good thing to do! (My younger sister was a long time editor of a weekly paper in a Twisp-sized town in Colorado….my bias)

I cant think of a SINGLE citizen initiative at either the local, County or State level that included a formal ‘invitation’ at the beginning of the process. It just doesnt work that way - unless the proposal is a one being pushed BY an elected body/town/county…like the School Board, Fire District, etc.
In contrast, however, citizen proposals always come to us already fully formed…and we vote them up or down. THAT’s just how it works.
.

[realoldtimer]

Personally, I believe the righteous thing that should have been done was to send a letter explaining the issue to every property owner who would be taxed regardless of where they vote.

[Fun CH]

Jim, I agree with what Ray stated above. I rarely read the Methow Valley News. As property owner My address is available to any group that wants my tax dollars for my opinion. A scoping letter is certainly not required by law as you point out, however in a tight community it would have been the ethical way to do things. A scoping letter would have provided the Friend's of the Mega Spa with vital information on the wants and needs of our community.

Its not to late to send that scoping letter.

[pasayten]

Jim,

Yes they had a lot of meetings on the pool and design aspects... Note that not all affected tax payers subscribe to the MVN...
I can see the need for a pool, but not necessarily a $20million+ complex given the other priorities of the Valley. My beef is with their chosen type of Aquatics District.

I did not see any meetings or news articles where the types of funding districts were discussed, their impact on taxpayers, and comparison for public input on the format to choose... They mentioned in a January 2023 MVN article "To address the operational demands of a new, valley-wide facility, we have organized a subcommittee of community members to learn about the formation of a recreation district and how this option may serve a future pool. Please contact us if you would like to help us with this important research by being on this subcommittee." Where besides the MVN article was this advertised? They have a link to "Follow us on Facebook!" on their "Contact" webpage... It is a broken link. I did search Facebook and eventually found their page... There are no posts from Sept 8, 2022 until April 1, 2023... No lists of meetings during this time... No call to join a committee to study, compare, and choose funding Districts... Just some May posts to sign up and collect signatures for the already decided Aquatics District.

Where on their website is a history of public outreach efforts? Meetings? Attendance? Minutes? Call for subcommittees? How did they try to reach senior and fixed income folks that are not computer savvy?

The feasibility study has a comparison... but no committee decision process... Just a simple statement on page 70 of the feasibility study... The decision was already made before the feasibility comparison was published in February.

Special Purpose District Determination and Funding Plan
After reviewing the special purpose district options, Friends of the Pool determined that a metropolitan park district (MPD) is the preferred district entity for funding and governing the pool facility. The MPD would be formed utilizing the Methow Valley School District as the boundaries for the district. The following section includes financial projections based on assumptions for debt issuance.

What was their decision making process for this decision? Where is their transparency in this decision? Where was the opportunity for public input?

They chose the most toxic format for tax payers with little option for public input... Permanent... an unelected board... highest tax levy rate... cannot be sued... powers beyond the scope need for a pool complex... etc...

We will strive to get all the true factual information out and let voters decide in November... The way it should be...

I suggest you read about what a Metropolitan Park District is... and look at the other types of districts for comparison...

https://mrsc.org/explore-topics/parks-a ... -districts

https://mrsc.org/explore-topics/parks-a ... -districts

[just-jim]

.
Yes those were all good letters and editorials in today’s MVN.

But….lets get away from the notion that somehow this proposal has crept into being without the proponents asking for comment.

I followed their actions - even though I have no particular desires regarding a pool. Or not. I noted it because I’m interested in my community. And, interested in what happens in the realm of recreation. And I read the MVNews.

(Also note….there is nothing in State law that requires a private group to do any sort of ‘scoping’ prior to gathering signatures for a ballot initiative)

A quick search on the MVNews site revealed all the opportunities that were available, in a VERY public way, about their desires and their wants for involvement of others:

Just some of those times….going back more than 2 and 1/2 years.

Jan 2023 - https://methowvalleynews.com/2023/01/25 ... -progress/

Jan 2023 - https://methowvalleynews.com/2023/01/18 ... ming-pool/

Jan 2023 - https://methowvalleynews.com/2023/01/11 ... n-efforts/

Sep 2022 - https://methowvalleynews.com/2022/09/14 ... t-session/

April 2022 - https://methowvalleynews.com/2022/04/13 ... -memorial/

March 2022 - https://methowvalleynews.com/2022/03/16 ... ent-ideas/

Oct 2021 - https://methowvalleynews.com/2021/10/27 ... wisp-pool/

Sept 2021 - https://methowvalleynews.com/2021/09/29 ... -facility/

April 2021 - https://methowvalleynews.com/2021/04/28 ... pool-plan/

March 2021 - https://methowvalleynews.com/2021/03/03 ... p-council/

Nov 2020 - https://methowvalleynews.com/2020/11/04 ... formation/

Oct 2020 – https://methowvalleynews.com/2020/10/28 ... he-wagner/

You may not like the proposal - or how the particular pieces came into being - but it was done openly.
.

[pasayten]

Has Justin answered any of the questions that were asked here, besides the Eminem domain word salad he provided which was not backed by verifiable facts.?

No... I am meeting with him and Ken Malloch Monday at 4pm. Open agenda...

Folks in the Valley are stirring from looking at website and BB analytics visits...

[Fun CH]

Chris Holm had a good letter last week referring to a letter Chris wrote last time this issue came up for a vote and was soundly defeated.

"This is a part of what I wrote back then:

In short, RCW 35.61 is in no way a prudent use of taxpayer money. My surprise is more taxpayer input wasn’t solicited before putting it on the ballot. RCW 35.61 includes virtually no oversight or required planning but does allow additional taxation of properties without a vote of the populace, eminent domain to take property"....

The Friends of the mega Spa didn't bother to ask the voters this time either. That is a great indication that they just don't care about anyone's concerns except their own self interest.

Has Justin answered any of the questions that were asked here, besides the eminent domain word salad he provided which was not backed by verifiable facts.?

[PAL]

Dave Hopkins letter fantastic and Ray's My Turn great. Glad mine made it in there too. Probably rebuttals next week. But what can they say, that they want to add extra taxes to those on a fixed income?

[pasayten]

[pasayten]

My Turn article published….
The web link is also in the article...

[Fun CH]

Thinking of making some business cards to hand out...
$50 for 500 of them...

Comments? Suggestions?

cardfront.jpg
cardback.png

I would add the word, "forever" or "impertuity" that "excludes voter input" at the end of your last sentence. Or "Forever Without voter input"

I don't think people realize the power this very small group will have if this proposition passes.

They can tell the voters anything they want now, but the law gives them the ability to make the changes that they alone decide. Like changing any promised low ball levy amount to 75 cents per thousand of assessed value, instantly and without a vote of the people living in our community.

We already know they want more than just a mega pool complex. One of the FOP board member's husband is part owner of a local mountain climbing Outfitter/guide service. Will Recreation tax dollars be used to support that business, perhaps a mega climbing wall complex staffed by outfitter guides with a pay scale decided by their board?

[pasayten]

Jingles... Thanks... PM sent

[Jingles]

Ray as mentioned in PM send me an address where I can make a donation to help cover the cost.
I would take some of the cards but I don't get out and about with folks anymore