Affordable Housing

[tristanbgilb]

Back to affordable housing. Tristan, you've got yours and were mighty lucky to have smart family start that town and to have that property. Times have changed greatly from then and you've seen changes in the Valley. So we need to deal with now.

My point is that while you are all complaining about lack of affordable housing there is one sitting right on Johnson Street. Only a dream but I can see how it can be done. It maybe the last opportunity in Twisp Town Limits unless Hank comes through which is quite likely. I am wanting to invest my time and efforts in my Twisp River Parel only this deal has me salivating as a land and dwelling in my vision of possible things I can do. It just takes a little imagination to realize there is a lot of value for the average joe in a hillside that doesn't have to be overly expensive to build into ...

[PAL]

I'm going to say it ad nauseum, look to the book, "Billionaire Wilderness" for the answers to those questions Alf. He did 5 yrs. of research on this, actually inserting himself into the ultra wealthy community. He was upfront about his project. It amounted to them giving money to the glamour organizations. And the local housing authority there and the Latino Community Center, was not in amongst the glamorous organizations that got a huge amount of dollars.
The main way they had gotten their money was hard work, mostly, and then they reached a certain point where most of their income was from investments over the years. Then they discovered Wyoming, that as one of the wealthy respondents said, it was like an offshore place to put your money, but it happened to be in the states.
We cannot rely on some wealthy person or 2, to provide the funds(well, maybe, they did Twispworks) It is up to the community and the towns, coming together to find a solution. Hank is a great example and he actually may have the funding but probably not all of it. I think many people would like to see this go through. And hopefully local carpenters and the gamut will be hired.

[PAL]

Sun Mtn. does provide some housing but it's not enough. Now if you turned Sun Mtn. into living space, what would you have? No work at the lodge because there would be living units, unless they only did part of it. The addition of the Gardner Bldg, really put pressure on to fill those rooms with guests. They built it when they could fill those rooms. But it kind of backfired starting say, about 6 yrs. ago.
Hank is a start. And the town thinks there is plenty of water...for now.
As far as socialism. I don't think having Medicare, health services, social security(because people don't seem to know how to save) and some other programs are socialism. That's a misused label.
There have to be some taxes, more on the wealthy, to pay their patriotic share. But take a look at a landline phone bill. Now there is some overtaxation, on the shady, slippery side, I would say.
Government regulation occurred when people were dumping waste and chems into the water supply, when smokestacks were emitting alot of pollutants, for example. In some areas of gov't there is too much regulation and others not enough perhaps. Needs to be sorted out. Good luck there, huh?
Back to affordable housing. Tristan, you've got yours and were mighty lucky to have smart family start that town and to have that property. Times have changed greatly from then and you've seen changes in the Valley. So we need to deal with now.

[pasayten]

Man lives in 100 sqft home and grows all his own food...

https://www.intheknow.com/post/meet-the ... -his-food/

[tristanbgilb]

My ancestors helped build the town of Gilbert at the end of Twisp River Rd. It seems incredible to me people could survive in such an environment with such primitive means. If there came a time we needed an emergency village I always thought the fs campgrounds would make nice villages for tiny houses. Start developing war creek. There is a telephone line within 2 or 3 hundred yards of the campground. But its not really a state of emergency here. I see the cities boiling over at some point. I didn't study history much. Seems like there is a real push to socialism. Its a real struggle to solve real life problems and using big government and taxing seems to often cause problems as suggested concentrating poverty. People are suggesting homes are needed and I wonder how many homes need to be built on the lots allotted. The water issue seems to be slowing development. Hank is getting into housing. I bet he hits it right on the head of the nail. He is a straight shooter. I really haven't heard what his plan is if the land is annexed by Twisp.

[tristanbgilb]

Sun Mountain might make nice condos. its a nice building.

[PAL]

Great concept of the Tough Shed. Probably would have to be beefed up for snow load here, don't you think?
Agree with you Tristan about the trailer park too.
But I know we are a tourist economy here in the Valley. A lot of the shops, especially in Winthrop vie for tourist dollars. I see alot of people that are not from here. I know people that cannot find housing. At Sun Mtn. some of the servers and others are driving over from Omak. These people probably don't have the $10,000 to $50,000 for a down payment for a house or land. I know people that don't. And while buying makes the most sense not everyone can or wants to. The Methow has close to a zero percent housing availability for rentals. That is not a healthy number.
Even Twisp in the summer has people exploring the town. The art galleries have a big draw. The Confluence is known as one of the best galleries East of the mountains.
It's true many locals do business in the Valley but it's those tourist dollars that the businesses have their eye on.
Pearl

[tristanbgilb]

Tiny Houses are what I would like to see trailer parks go to. In private upscale RV Parks where people own their own lots they are called "Park Model Homes". Built with size restrictions, everything goes into making the home nice. This is what could be at the horseshoe trailer park if people were allowed to own and develop their lots. I was told a tenant just paid $50k for a double wide in the park. They have this expense plus rent for the lot and electricity and insurance. Its not cheap housing. I just wish they were so empowered to come together as a homeowner's association and buy the trailer park collectively so each person had a private lot. Perhaps too much power to people we want poor and beaten down? I am just saying its possible.

[pasayten]

Home Depot ‘Tuff Sheds’ Make For Affordable Two-Story Tiny Homes
You can personalize them and trick them out with all kinds of extras!

June 30, 2020 by Marie Rossiter | Last updated on 12/01/2021

Home is where the heart is — and the tiny-house craze proves size doesn’t matter when it comes to creating our homes. We’ve seen tiny homes you can buy on Amazon and even ones you can have 3D-printed. Now, we’ve found some out-of-the-box-thinking homeowners who are repurposing storage sheds purchased at Home Depot into their own tiny houses.

Tuff Shed, a builder who partners with Home Depot, offers sheds that make it easy, such as the two-story Sundance TR-1600 model (though it’s currently unavailable). It has standard 8-foot walls on the first floor, a full second floor, 36-inch stairs, an entry door with locks and boxed eaves on all walls. Customers can also order an optional front porch with a deck, windows, shutters and window boxes to make it truly look like a real house.


Tuff Shed

Concerned about limited color options? Tuff Shed offers 30 colors to choose from in their collection, including various shades of white, blue, brown, gray and red. Roof materials come in five standard colors and three different styles: three-tab composition shingles (which are standard to the shed), upgraded dimensional shingles or a metal roof. Each one has a specific warranty to guarantee protection from winds and rain.

Prices for this potential tiny home start at a base price of $12,629 for a 16-foot-by-20-foot-by-21-foot shed (unpainted). They go up to $22,889 for an unpainted 18-foot-by-36-foot-by-21-foot, 6-inch shed. You can also purchase them painted at a higher price point. You can choose from 10 different sizes and then add on the extras as you see fit. Insulate them, add drywall, and bring in plumbing and electricity if you like!

The Smith Family’s Tuff Shed Home
It’s one thing to talk about making a shed into a home sweet home, but it’s another to see it all set up.

We found My Tuff Shed Home on Facebook, a page from a family who has been sharing their shed home life since 2018. How charming is this little house?


Beth and Barry Smith of Georgia made the move into their Tuff Shed tiny home after trying to build a tiny house on their own. When it came to the second project, the Smiths decided to get some help.

One day during a trip to Home Depot, the Smiths saw the TR-1600 and liked the look of it. They ordered one and hired builders and contractors to create their new tiny home. There were separate crews for shed construction, foundation pouring (an additional charge) and interior work.

What It’s Like Inside
We connected directly with the Smith family, who was generous enough to give us a virtual tour of their lovely home.

One the first floor, they went for an open concept. They have a nice, airy window in the kitchen area in front of the sink for some amazing views.

Tucked into the kitchen is a cozy dining area perfect for up to four people. Then, the Smiths and guests can retire to the living area for games and conversation, if they’d like.


Beth and Barry Smith
The couple’s bedroom looks like the perfect private retreat for two. There’s the bed, complete with side tables and lamps. The room also includes windows, a ceiling fan, a dresser and even a nice seating area where they can relax.

Barry and Beth Smith
The Smiths even have their own bathroom complete with a soaking tub! It looks like their own personal day spa.

Barry and Beth Smith
But, how much did this all cost to pull together? After all, that truly is the bottom line, right?

“Our Tuff Shed shell was a bit over $20,000 including some upgrades,” Beth told us. “To finish it out, we did a lot of the work ourselves but hired out electrical and plumbing, HVAC, etc. All in we came in a bit over $60,000.”

According to Zillow, the average price of a home in the U.S. is $312,728. At about $60,000, the Smiths paid just a fraction of the average cost of a home. But did saving so much on their house mean they traded in the enjoyment of their previous home? They may have cut their budget, but Beth said the Smiths gained a lot more in their lifestyle than they lost in space.

“We still love the size, we love the ease of living here,” Beth said. “We still enjoy a generally uncluttered life. Having a small home with very little overhead has allowed us to pursue a simpler life and to walk away from ‘corporate,’ which was one of our goals.”

How cool! We love what they’ve done with the place.

[tristanbgilb]

I lived on St John in the US Virgin Islands when I was in my 20's and traveling around. Here was a place with a real tourist economy and housing difficulties. Here it is nice. There was a little too much traffic today in twisp and I wondered where everyone came from. I don't see us as this tourist economy with a housing crisis at all. I am not even familiar with a bunch of empty vacation homes. This is not what I see. Renting isn't a longterm lifestyle that I have ever lived. My dad bought the land he raised me on. I am buying the land I am raising my children on. I was not raised in this cycle of poverty. I have been taught that land ownership is everything. My ancestors came across the country to homestead and have owned land from homesteading. Renting is like having a king and really sucks the power out of a guy. I am just thinking about st john because land came up for sale on the island and I was thinking about buying it. it amazes me people sell their land. its like they don't love their children and want them to be slaves rather than landlords. I have sacrificed much to be a landlord. People think I am insanely cheap because I go to the cove for food. I think my clothes must come from the senior center thrift store. I don't drink alcohol. I don't eat meat. I prefer milk and brown rice for my diet. My expenses are cannabis medicine and real estate and kids.

[PAL]

Alf, the way I read it, Tristan took care of the housing shortage for himself. Not others. One person can't. That is why there is a coalition that is working on this, see MVN. A little late perhaps or the Valley was asleep at the wheel.
Once the Valley turned to tourism, as early as the 80's, it would have been nice to start thinking about a possible housing shortage that might occur. But then, it would not have been a good return, as units might have sat empty. I usually could fine housing in the early 90's, no problem. But Covid seemed to bring it to the forefront and to our attention.
Again, I suggest reading Billionaire Wilderness. It's about Jackson Hole and the tax shelters for the ultra wealthy in Wyoming. We are not there and don't think we will be. We don't have the elevation that the Tetons have. Thank goodness in a way.

[pasayten]

Snohomish County proposes sales tax hike without a vote to fund affordable housing
Snohomish County has the highest tax rate in Washington at 10.5%. But taxpayers may not have a say in this proposal.

Author: Eric Wilkinson
Published: 8:14 PM PST December 2, 2021


LYNNWOOD, Wash — With prices going up and inflation on the rise, Snohomish County is proposing a sales tax increase, even though it already has the highest sales tax in the state.

"Nobody likes to raise taxes," said Snohomish County spokesperson Kent Patton. "But unfortunately, we have one tool at our disposal at the county level."


Patton said the money would raise $117 million over the next five years to build 300 new units of affordable housing, more than doubling what's already in the works.

He said it's desperately needed.

"In Snohomish County, to afford a 2-bedroom apartment, a person making minimum wage has to work three full-time jobs. People are struggling to pay for housing. Ask any teacher or construction worker, or the person who delivers your food. This is a crisis."


King County's sales tax sits at 10.3% and the same is true in Pierce County.

Snohomish County has the highest in Washington at 10.5%.

An additional tenth of a percent would push Lynnwood, Mukilteo, Mill Creek and the Snohomish County section of Bothell to 10.6%.

The rate is so high, the City of Lynnwood sent a letter to the council stating, "We oppose any increase in the sales tax rate in our county. We appeal to you and to our state legislature to find other forms of revenue to address the pressing issues of housing and mental health."

Angering opponents is the likelihood that the increase could happen without the consent of the people, and there may not be much that taxpayers can do about it.

"They're going to get hit with a sales tax increase without really having any say in it," said Snohomish County Councilmember Nate Nehring.

Last year, state legislators passed a law giving cities and counties the authority to raise sales taxes for housing without a vote of the people.

"Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should," said Nehring, of Arlington. "It most directly impacts those who are poor and in the middle class. We should be listening to those folks who say they don't want this. That's why I think it's so important this go to a public vote, so they can have their voices heard."


The last sales tax increase in Snohomish County was three years ago. It was a one-tenth of a percent hike to fund emergency communications.

Patton said if this increase is passed, it would only cost the average person about $27 per year.

When asked why not put it to a vote, Patton said, "The crisis is now. We want to act now and we can't afford to have a thousand hearings and repeat the same things we've been doing for years. We believe the need is so great we have to do something now."

The Snohomish County Council is expected to vote on the increase in two weeks.

If approved, the tax hike will take effect in April.

[tristanbgilb]

I just did. If I needed a house I would buy the cliff and build one. End of housing shortage.

[tristanbgilb]

i am just baffled by this last post tristan.
are you suggesting that there is no housing shortage in the valley because you have found a 100k property that you can afford to buy?

I am suggesting if I had a housing shortage I could solve the problem and build an affordable dwelling then my housing shortage would be solved.

[tristanbgilb]

I am somewhat skilled in real estate and have both failed and succeeded in transactions and investments. I would buy the cliff next to the community center if I was looking for a dwelling in the Methow Valley. This cliff is available for just over $100k on a contract with about $25k down at 5%. I would build on the johnson street lot first next to filers building. I would have an engineer draw up a three sided foundation to hold up the cliff and be the back walls of the structure. I would have half this building be office and the other half dwelling. I am thinking about 24ft by 36ft by 24 ft by 10 ft tall and 8 in thick concrete with appropriate rebar. the money would be in the foundation but it would be at the bottom of the cliff on ground level. this lot could be developed into dwelling commercial for not too much money if you think small rather than grandiose.

[tristanbgilb]

And who, living in a trailer, could afford a $100,000 dollar trailer pad?

They pay enough in rent to almost cover it on a 30 year fixed term loan. Lets say they pay $600 month rent for the lot. $100k at 3% is less money per month and someday there is no payment at all owned free and clear... and the owner is empowered and proud of their home.

[Fun CH]

A housing crisis to me looks like the trailer park in Twisp more than all this "affordable housing" we supposedly need here. This is low cost housing at the trailer park. Is this what we want more of? I think this california trust in charge of the trailer park should be bought out by a housing association and the lots in the park owned by the tenants. I went to the taxsifter and saw that this park was purchased for 1.7 million in 2017. By inflation standards lets just say its worth 4 million now. I looked over the map and counted roughly 40 trailers. that would make each lot roughly worth $100k with all the amenities already installed. I would rather empower tenants to become land owners than create more cheap housing to make outside interests rich while creating this blight our valley.

have you seen the affordable housing project in Twisp and Mazama? Those are nice places sold to working families.

And who, living in a trailer, could afford a $100,000 dollar trailer pad?

When we say affordable housing, no one is talking about a homeless shelter.

But I do agree with you about that hard work ethic here. Everyone has to do their share of carrying the water for the community.

Those that are well employed elseware, making wages that are next to impossible to make here for the average person, and own a vacant 2nd home can certainly afford an additional 1 to 2% tax on the value of their property.

Just asking them to carry some of that water for the benefit the community.

Glad you joined the discussion.

[pasayten]

Motel converted to housing...

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/l ... -employees

[PAL]

I am starting to read the book, "Billionaire Wilderness" about what has happened to Jackson Hole as an example. It is very in depth, starting with interviews with the ultra wealthy. This guy researched this for 5 yrs. It is quite revealing.
The reason we want affordable housing is that there are people that are living in tents, motorhomes, here and they are the workers breaking their backs for our tourist economy. That is the course the Methow has taken, so that our tourist economy doesn't go away, housing needs to be built.
I know there is a shortage as I have been looking for housing for a friend, and there is next to nothing, that is affordable anyway. A 3 bedroom house on the other BB was asking $2100/month. I'm betting it is quite a nice house and at that price they must figure people will not wreck it. Of course, 3 or more sharing it would make it more affordable.
Just my speculation.

[tristanbgilb]

A housing crisis to me looks like the trailer park in Twisp more than all this "affordable housing" we supposedly need here. This is low cost housing at the trailer park. Is this what we want more of? I think this california trust in charge of the trailer park should be bought out by a housing association and the lots in the park owned by the tenants. I went to the taxsifter and saw that this park was purchased for 1.7 million in 2017. By inflation standards lets just say its worth 4 million now. I looked over the map and counted roughly 40 trailers. that would make each lot roughly worth $100k with all the amenities already installed. I would rather empower tenants to become land owners than create more cheap housing to make outside interests rich while creating this blight our valley.

[pasayten]

Was talking about this issue with a friend who lived in Aspen back in the day when they addressed similar problems...

"Difficult issue - most workers in Aspen lived down-valley, at least out of town"

"First Low cost housing units filled up with ski bums, after that one had to prove employment with a Chamber of Commerce member business in town."

That is a novel concept...

[tristanbgilb]

I could build myself an affordable dwelling in Twisp today with the resources I have today with land to play with. there are places in the cities for people that don't want to carry their weight in society. the methow valley requires high standards integrity and hard work to be accepted. if you want a free place to stay there are shelters in other places. here i am looking for a safe and comfortable place to raise a family. i moved here to get away from this druggy street trash that has taken over our cities. why would we want to invite it here.?

[Fun CH]

I don't see the housing crisis you are referring to people. I am middle class with two methow valley dwellings and could almost afford to build another.

Could you afford to move here now given the resources you had when you moved here, what was it 20-30 years ago?

I couldn't.

We built our home here (1984-85) after living for 7 years in a 12×48 foot used trailer. Later we moved that trailer to a $50 a month rental lot located in an apple orchard where we lived amongst a variety of chemical sprays. (the owner of that Orchard developed a nasty cancer).

When we moved to the Valley it was affordable to be able to escape that life.

Twenty five years ago you could buy a 2 acre lot in Pine Forest for $10,000.

The last two 2 acres lots in that development sold for around $250,000.

If you want to welcome people willing to do hard physical work in the Methow and to replace those of us who are retiring, housing needs to be affordable and available.

Neither of those is occuring now.

A vacant home tax could help fund homes for those who are working hard, saving but still could never afford to live here given the current situation.

[tristanbgilb]

I don't see the housing crisis you are referring to people. I am middle class with two methow valley dwellings and could almost afford to build another. "Money talks and bull*** walks"; This guy kept telling me this when he picked me up broke and destitute hitchhiking i-5 to olympia from a grateful dead show. get off your asses and get some land and build a house. the government is not going to save you and why do i owe you a place to live?

[Fun CH]

Wouldn't it be great if they would post and just say they will not accept anymore.

they did that once asking that we not post anything political, and people kept posting political stuff anyway.

I got caught up in a political discussion when a part-time Valley resident from Bellevue (I think) with a second home in Twisp posted about reviving the already defeated formation of a Methow Recreational District.

[That conversation, where I pushed back hard against that new tax and the ability to take our property for recreational use, ultimately led to me getting banned from that forum.]

That guy had previously written a letter to the editor to MVN suggesting that a recreational District would help increase property values. That happened anyway and has helped exacerbate our affordable housing crisis.

Wonder how that Bellevue guy would feel about increasing the taxes on his second home in Twisp in order to fund affordable housing?

The increase in property values is a double-edged sword.

On the positive side those increased property values means that our long time working class valley residents will be able to sell their homes when they can longer take care of themselves and be able to afford a decent assisted living or nursing care facility.