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Re: Inside ICE they're miserable

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2025 12:20 pm
by mister_coffee
You raise a fair point—the rule of law is foundational to a functioning society, and law enforcement officers (LEOs) play a critical role in upholding it. Most officers do their best under difficult circumstances, and blanket demonization is neither fair nor productive. However, supporting the rule of law doesn’t mean we must uncritically accept every law or every enforcement action. Let’s unpack this carefully.

1. Not All Laws Are Just

History is full of examples where laws were on the books but deeply unjust:

Segregation laws enforced racial discrimination in the Jim Crow South.
The Fugitive Slave Act compelled citizens to participate in enslavement.
Redlining laws codified housing discrimination against Black Americans.
In these cases, enforcing the law meant perpetuating injustice. Criticizing unjust laws or their enforcement is not a rejection of the rule of law—it’s a demand to align laws with constitutional principles like equality and liberty.

2. Even Just Laws Can Be Enforced Unjustly

Even good laws can be applied abusively. For example:

Over-policing of marginalized communities for low-level drug offenses, despite similar rates of drug use across demographics.
Excessive force used against peaceful protesters exercising their First Amendment rights.
Qualified immunity shielding officers from accountability for unconstitutional actions.
Accountability isn’t “anti-cop”—it’s about ensuring enforcement respects the Constitution and human dignity.

3. Reform Strengthens the Rule of Law

The U.S. system is built on checks and balances precisely because laws and their enforcement can fail. When citizens demand reforms (e.g., ending qualified immunity, revising use-of-force policies, or decriminalizing minor offenses), they’re not attacking LEOs—they’re working to ensure the law reflects our shared values and that enforcement is fair and constitutional.

4. Blind Obedience Undermines the Rule of Law

The rule of law isn’t a cult of obedience. It’s a dynamic system that requires:

Legislators to pass just laws.
Courts to interpret them fairly.
Citizens to hold all branches accountable when they fall short.

As Justice Harlan F. Stone warned, the Constitution shouldn’t be “neutral” when constitutional rights are at stake. Criticizing unjust laws or their enforcement is a patriotic act—it honors the spirit of the law, not just the letter.

Final Thought

Let’s support LEOs by demanding better laws, better training, and better accountability—not by treating the legal system as infallible. The rule of law isn’t a shield for injustice; it’s a tool to pursue it. Would you agree that progress requires both respecting institutions and improving them when they fail?

Re: Inside ICE they're miserable

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2025 5:25 am
by Rideback
These agents are not enforcing the laws. In too many cases now we're finding that 'these agents' are not even agents but imposters but because they break the laws by not carrying ID or using warrants civilians are being physically attacked. We have overwhelming cases now of people who are US citizens or here legally that are being detained illegally. Pay attention. And if Noem and Trump were really interested in arresting 'the worst of the worst' then they wouldn't have pulled agents off their jobs investigating drug cartels and human trafficking rings. Pay attention.

Fox News host asks Noem why they're arresting gardeners https://www.rawstory.com/kristi-noem-co ... ortations/

Re: Inside ICE they're miserable

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2025 10:49 pm
by dorankj
Maybe PRETEND you support the 'rule of law'! These LEOs are just doing their jobs enforcing the laws on the books, don't like it? Change the laws, don't demonize and attack the law enforcement!

Re: Inside ICE they're miserable

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2025 6:18 am
by mister_coffee
I'd have some sympathy for them if they resigned publicly and aired all of the dirty laundry on their way out. It doesn't take a lot of courage to kvetch anonymously.

Inside ICE they're miserable

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2025 6:10 am
by Rideback
Agents pulled off drug cartel cases and human trafficking
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... on/683477/

ICE occupies an exalted place in President Donald Trump’s hierarchy of law enforcement. He praises the bravery and fortitude of Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers—“the toughest people you’ll ever meet,” he says—and depicts them as heroes in the central plot of his presidency, helping him rescue the country from an invasion of gang members and mental patients. The 20,000 ICE employees are the unflinching men and women who will restore order. They’re the Untouchables in his MAGA crime drama.

The reality of Trump’s mass-deportation campaign is far less glamorous. Officers and agents have spent much of the past five months clocking weekends and waking up at 4 a.m. for predawn raids. Their top leaders have been ousted or demoted, and their supervisors—themselves under threat of being fired—are pressuring them to make more and more arrests to meet quotas set by the Trump adviser Stephen Miller. Having insisted for years that capturing criminals is its priority, ICE is now shelving major criminal investigations to prioritize civil immigration arrests, grabbing asylum seekers at their courthouse hearings, handcuffing mothers as their U.S.-citizen children cry, chasing day laborers through Home Depot parking lots. As angry onlookers attempt to shame ICE officers with obscenities, and activists try to dox them, officers are retreating further behind masks and tactical gear.

“It’s miserable,” one career ICE official told me. He called the job “mission impossible.”

I recently spoke with a dozen current and former ICE agents and officers about morale at the agency since Trump took office. Most spoke on the condition of anonymity, for fear of losing their job or being subjected to a polygraph exam. They described varying levels of dissatisfaction but weren’t looking to complain or expecting sympathy—certainly not at a time when many Americans have been disturbed by video clips of masked and hooded officers seizing immigrants who were not engaged in any obvious criminal behavior. The frustration isn’t yet producing mass resignations or major internal protests, but the officers and agents described a workforce on edge, vilified by broad swaths of the public and bullied by Trump officials demanding more and more."