Pasayten's Methow Valley Bulletin Board

Rumors associating vaccines with either male or female infertility are not at all new or even restricted to COVID vaccines:

Roots of polio vaccine suspicion

For years there has been suspicion that the polio vaccine is laced with infertility hormones as part of a US-led plot to reduce the Muslim population. The Kano State government suspended polio immunization between September 2003 and November 2004 following the spread of such rumours by some Muslim clerics. The suspension led to an unprecedented number of infections and transmission of the virus to 17 countries that had been polio-free.

Kano resident Zulaihatu Mahmud says most people understand polio is caused by a virus, but even so, she and others fear the vaccine could be harmful: “Nobody wants their child to be crippled by polio, and nobody wants her child to be sterile, either.”

David thanks for taking the time to explain vaccines and virus particle size. I was to lazy to do so as my focus is more on human psychology.

Add to the list.

The sperm of the unvaccinated will be worth more than Bitcoin someday.

Some troubling information coming out is a how a few politicians, (who seem to be promoting catching covid via they're inaction policies), and their money connections to the antiviral drug used to treat covid-19, Remdesivir.

I don't know yet if this is factual or a left wing conspiracy theory tying together certain facts. (And yes conspiracy theories occur from both sides of the aisle.)

Facts such the federal government purchasing 300000 doses of the drug 8 days before Trump's departure.

And campaign contributions to Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida by a person heavily invested in the drug.

It's almost like they need victims for their money and power agenda.

More investigation is warranted. If true this wouldn't be the first time profit motive influenced policies that are detrimental to human health and safety.

tristanbgilb wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:18 am Those pictures definitely look more scary than the Scooby Doo drawings of covid going around in the media. I am not really sure why injecting some crazy dead baby concoction into my muscle to stimulate my immune system will be all that helpful rather than living in an environment where I slowly build an immunity and trust in the immunity I already have developed naturally. I might even ask if I should I should trust in my religion over media science. I am undecided on the shots being shoved down my throat by those so ambitious to believe in these psydo-science technology.

Tristan,

mRNA vaccines are not made from dead babies. The mRNA and lipids used in them (everything else is just water and salt) are synthesized using industrial scale protein synthesizers, which are basically supercharged versions of these:

https://www.gyrosproteintechnologies.co ... nthesizers

Feedstock for those gadgets is usually derived from petroleum products or from agriculture.

There are good reasons to believe that vaccine-induced immunity will be superior to "natural" immunity. For one thing, your odds of dying while getting that natural immunity are likely hundreds to thousands of times greater than just getting a shot. Also, you natural immune system is blind and can't know the structure of the pathogen it is trying to fight. We humans do so we can design a vaccine that reacts with specific part of the virus and more efficiently interferes with the virus' reproductive cycle.

It isn't pseudo-science. It is honest-to-gosh real science. There is also the track record (mRNA vaccines and therapies have been studied for decades, human tests on an mRNA rabies vaccine were done in 2017). Almost all of the relevant research papers are open-sourced at this point and you can dig them up and read through them and decide for yourself. This isn't something some yahoo cooked up in their basement last year.

Also, people are "treating" themselves for COVID with toxic metals ("colloidal silver"), and livestock medicine (Iver Mectin), based on zero track record and no research into their efficacy or safety. I'll go with medications where there is actual research by sober adults.

Add to the list of bad vaccine information out there:

• Vaccines are made from dead babies or aborted fetuses

Those pictures definitely look more scary than the Scooby Doo drawings of covid going around in the media. I am not really sure why injecting some crazy dead baby concoction into my muscle to stimulate my immune system will be all that helpful rather than living in an environment where I slowly build an immunity and trust in the immunity I already have developed naturally. I might even ask if I should I should trust in my religion over media science. I am undecided on the shots being shoved down my throat by those so ambitious to believe in these psydo-science technology.

tristanbgilb wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 12:49 pm ... I still don't know how such a fat virus can breech the cell wall without killing the cell.

Well, actually viruses generally do kill cells, eventually.

COVID virus particles are between 50nm and 140nm.

This compares to typical human cells, which are between 10 micrometers and 100 micrometers in diameter. So on the average COVID cells are one-thousandth the linear size of the cells they are attacking (because cells and virii are three-dimensional objects, the average cell has about a billion times the volume that the typical covid particle has). There can be roughly 100,000 viral particles in an infected cell at a given time.

This image is helpful for visualizing the relative sizes of viruses and bacterium:

I still don't know how such a fat virus can breech the cell wall without killing the cell.

PAL wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:25 am Maybe those insurance companies still cover the unvaccinated because they are still collecting premium payments. Money is money, no matter who it comes from.

Yes money can be an influencer here but that ultimately ties to an governmental Institutional failure.

Why doesn't the mayor of Seattle and/or Governor Inslee require vaccines to attend events such as for Seahawks games? Or public transportation as has already been mentioned.

Government Authority had no problem requiring masks for businesses in the interest of Public Health and Safety, but now
we have a more effective tool with the vaccine and suddenly public health no longer has the same urgent priority.

I'm thinking that this has to do with the fact that the vaccine is still under emergency use authorization. Perhaps when the vaccine is fully authorized, political will might kick in.

David, I agree with you on the vaccine's effectiveness and safety.

However the covid vaccine is still under emergency use authorization which is one of the main arguments for vaccine hesitancy. In this case I misused the term "experimental" to mean emergency use authorization.

PAL wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:25 am David, you will have to show or bring up the stats that show that the mRNA vaccine is not that experimental. This type of vaccine has been worked on in the past.

...

There were human trials of an mRNA vaccine (for rabies) in 2017. I can't find the reference right off the top of my laptop but I believe there were human trials of an mRNA vaccine for skin cancer in 2013:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/a ... ct/2665756

There have been literally decades of research on mRNA vaccines. A big part of the reason the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were available so quickly is that a lot of the pieces had been put in place to make that happen over a decade ago:

https://www.uab.edu/news/youcanuse/item ... ly-be-safe

So in no way are the mRNA vaccines "experimental". They both have completed Phase I, Phase II, and Phase III trials which are bluntly the really important parts of the approval process, because they determine both safety and efficacy. And we all need to keep in mind how astonishingly rare it is for any medication (or vaccine) to be this effective on the first try. Usually there is quite a bit of iteration in the research process to figure out the optimum dosage and treatment regimen to get to that level of effectiveness. So in one way we are incredibly lucky.

It is also important to keep in mind that the Phase III cohort got their first shots about a year ago, and that they are still being closely watched. So if there are any kind of serious side effects or even as we begin to understand how immunity from the vaccine decreases over time they are still six months ahead of me.

PAL wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:25 am ...
Is it bad behavior? Maybe a different word or phrase. It's not "good" behavior is it, to spread a very contagious, deadly disease for some, and for some with long term health problems? It's unconscionable, is what it is. It's lacking thinking of other members of society.
Now if those unvaccinated would mask, ok, but you know what? Many aren't.
The earth is overpopulated, so maybe we shouldn't vaccinate. Many more morgues would have to be built.

I'm sorry, but if you knowingly spread a disease like HIV or tuberculosis you will be thrown in jail. I am uncomprehending of how spreading a disease like COVID would not be considered repulsive and foul, if not criminal.

I think that a reasonable person might have questioned the vaccines and want to wait in March or April. By June or July enough information had came in that most any reasonable person could make a good decision. Saying you "need to know more" in July really means you are just rationalizing that you don't want to take the vaccine but don't want to sound like a nutjob.

A comment about information and information sources. There are a lot of sources out there, both good and bad. We live in a free society and it is on each of us to make our personal decisions based on the best information possible. And in this case it isn't like the very best information is being kept from us: nearly all scientific papers (both the very good and the very bad) have been made publicly available at no cost. Most of us need to rely on proxies: and there are both good and bad proxies. A good proxy might be your family doctor, or it might be a friend or relative who works in the medical field (perhaps as a Nurse or PA). A bad proxy might be a Facebook Friend who sends you links to articles.

Amongst the Bad Information being distributed about the vaccines are:

• The vaccines contain a microchip.

• The vaccines alter your DNA.

• The vaccines turn you into a monkey.

• Vaccinated people "shed" the virus and can sicken others.

Now all of those aren't just Bad Information, they are Really Bad Information. One would think that a reasonable person would want to check them out thoroughly before using information like that to make a potentially life-altering health care decision. And all you'd need to do to check it out is to call your doctor and listen to their advice. And if other anti-vaccine information that sounded less unreasonable than the above four claims were mixed in whatever article I was reading I would be more skeptical of that information as well. Just because the source was so obviously polluted with insanity and inanity.

I know with a great deal of certainty that the vast majority of the people who are refusing the vaccine have never called a doctor's office to ask them what they thought and what their (the doctor's) advice would be. That information is literally a phone call away and they just won't make the call. So in my view it is on them.

Good questions, Chris, which may be answered this later summer/fall with infection rates climbing.
David, you will have to show or bring up the stats that show that the mRNA vaccine is not that experimental. This type of vaccine has been worked on in the past.
I saw it somewhere, probably on evil FB, of the progression of the work done on the vaccine and also how it was sped up for use. Things were worked on concurrently. It will be approved. It has to be. And in the meantime they are working on it to improve it.
Unfortunately I don't have that info readily handy and if anyone does it would be you.
We almost got there with the vaccination rate that was needed. But fearful people made sure we didn't. However the news says that people are starting to change their minds in those states like Florida and the other southern states. They are starting to get the vaccine.
Maybe those insurance companies still cover the unvaccinated because they are still collecting premium payments. Money is money, no matter who it comes from.
Is it bad behavior? Maybe a different word or phrase. It's not "good" behavior is it, to spread a very contagious, deadly disease for some, and for some with long term health problems? It's unconscionable, is what it is. It's lacking thinking of other members of society.
Now if those unvaccinated would mask, ok, but you know what? Many aren't.
The earth is overpopulated, so maybe we shouldn't vaccinate. Many more morgues would have to be built.

mister_coffee wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:36 am If people do a Bad Thing in one context and a Good Thing in another context it doesn't make the Bad Thing go away.

so are people who have been "conned" by misinformation or are sincere in their belief that they don't want to inject an experimental drug or have concerns about long-term side effects exhibiting bad behavior?

Or are low vaccination rates really an institutional failure?

Why can you still fly, take a bus or train ​for Interstate travel without being vaccinated?

​Why do insurance companies still cover vaccine eligible people who haven't been vaccinated and then contract covid that requires extensive medical treatment?

If people do a Bad Thing in one context and a Good Thing in another context it doesn't make the Bad Thing go away.

mister_coffee wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:47 pm

pasayten wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:08 am ...
Okanogan county not bad... Yet.

The infuriating thing is that this "wave" was one hundred percent optional. Nearly all of the suffering and death are going to be amongst the unvaccinated, many of whom chose to not get vaccinated. And many of the unvaccinated chose to do so for foolish and silly reasons.

I do have a great deal of sympathy for those who become sick and were unable to get vaccinated. It is harder to find compassion for those who chose not to get a lifesaving medication that was offered pretty much everywhere for free.

Tuberculosis is a serious disease that is easily transmitted. Our state (and nearly every other state) has laws on the books that give public health authorities to indefinitely detain people with tuberculosis until they have gone through a course of treatment (which can take years) and also give them the power to detain them if they refuse to wear a mask to keep others from being infected. And far more people are dying of COVID than are dying of tuberculosis. Just saying.

And yet people, some of whom where most likely unvaccinated and voted Replubican, risked their lives to save your home and made sure you were evacuated during the Cub Creek fire?.

You've already told us that you want to round up the unvaccinated and inject them with a "dull needle".

How do you reconcile the action of hero's with the hate you feel for them?

pasayten wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:08 am ...
Okanogan county not bad... Yet.

The infuriating thing is that this "wave" was one hundred percent optional. Nearly all of the suffering and death are going to be amongst the unvaccinated, many of whom chose to not get vaccinated. And many of the unvaccinated chose to do so for foolish and silly reasons.

I do have a great deal of sympathy for those who become sick and were unable to get vaccinated. It is harder to find compassion for those who chose not to get a lifesaving medication that was offered pretty much everywhere for free.

Tuberculosis is a serious disease that is easily transmitted. Our state (and nearly every other state) has laws on the books that give public health authorities to indefinitely detain people with tuberculosis until they have gone through a course of treatment (which can take years) and also give them the power to detain them if they refuse to wear a mask to keep others from being infected. And far more people are dying of COVID than are dying of tuberculosis. Just saying.

Delta variant causing COVID-19 cases to spread 'like wildfire' in Washington

https://www.king5.com/article/news/heal ... 15c5cf32e6

Here's the county break down from the DOH:

Only seven counties (Kittitas, Okanogan, Ferry, Klickitat, Walla Walla, Jefferson, Garfield, Grays Harbor) have seen cases increase less than 100% .
Twelve counties (Adams, Thurston, Snohomish, Benton, Skamania, Whatcom, Skagit, Kitsap, Yakima, Cowlitz, Mason, Grant) have seen cases increase between 100-299%.
Ten counties (Clallam, Stevens, Asotin, Whitman, Franklin, Spokane, King, Clark, Lewis, Pierce) have seen cases increase between 300-599%.
Six counties (Pend Oreille, Douglas, Lincoln, Pacific, Chelan, Island) have seen cases increase more than 600%.
Columbia, San Juan and Wahkiakum counties have among the fewest cases.

Okanogan county not bad... Yet.

pasayten wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:52 am More than 99.99% of fully vaccinated people have not had a severe breakthrough case, CDC data suggests...
...

It also seems that the vast majority of serious breakthrough cases are in people who are immunocompromised in some way, so it is reasonable to expect that the vaccines would not work as well.

One thing I haven't seen yet is whether the percentage of serious cases and fatalities is increasing with the new variants. Anecdotally I am hearing that people are getting sicker faster but I'm not clearly hearing that there is a higher rate of serious disease.

August 6th, add 3 more to Twisp total. I'd like to see the number of unvaccinated that are getting Covid. I read that in our community it's the unvaccinated going to events outside the Valley, that are getting it.

pasayten wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:35 am Okanogan only at 35%???? Twisp at 57%???? Come on folks... Get Vaccinated!

And Brewster is at 86%. Nice to see a community that looks for out each other.

More than 99.99% of fully vaccinated people have not had a severe breakthrough case, CDC data suggests...

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/corona ... _term=link

Moniepenne wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:34 pm Pfizer tweeted recently that in essence its vaccine doesn't work, necessitating a 'therapeutic'.

I think you may have misinterpreted that message. Pfizer is definitely not saying that their vaccine doesn't work.

Fortunately they have been working on antivirals to try and keep those who haven't been vaccinated and have contracted covid-19 from becoming you know, Dead.

"From cdc.gov
Based on evidence from clinical trials in people 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected"

Apparently people are already working the system to get a third "booster shot". Depending on where you are that isn't difficult to do. Note that even though it isn't difficult it also isn't legal.

I'm waiting until they make up new mRNA for the most recent variants. Which is likely to be very soon as they have set up a process to fast-track approval of such booster shots.

pasayten wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:03 pm

Moniepenne wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:34 pm Food for thought, in case people are getting too far over their skis.....

My Pfizer vaccination has already saved me illness from a close contact face to face meeting of several folks who all got sick/covid after the meeting. Only 2 did not get sick... I was one of them. Good enough proof for me...

I will be first in line when the booster shot becomes avaiable...

No you won't, I will.

Okanogan only at 35%???? Twisp at 57%???? Come on folks... Get Vaccinated!

City Cases Reported August 5, 2021 Cumulative Case Count Deaths Reported August 5, 2021 Total Deaths
Winthrop--2-------------------------------------------61-------------------------------0-------------------------------0
Twiisp------1-------------------------------------------96-------------------------------0-------------------------------0

https://okanogancountycovid19.org/covid-19-data/

Moniepenne wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:34 pm ...
Food for thought, in case people are getting too far over their skis.....

"Food" in the sense that cheetos are food, I guess.

The vaccines do work. In fact, the mRNA vaccines are incredibly effective. Antivirals are being studied because some people are unable to take the vaccine for medical reasons. Some people are too addled by rampant disinformation on YooToob and SpaceBook to actually discern real facts. Still others think that their tribal identity somehow makes them immune to the disease.

There are multiple COVID-19 tests. They have varying tradeoffs in terms of false positives, false negatives, expense, and difficulty of application. Exactly which "existing COVID19 test" are you referring to?

Moniepenne wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:34 pm Food for thought, in case people are getting too far over their skis.....

My Pfizer vaccination has already saved me illness from a close contact face to face meeting of several folks who all got sick/covid after the meeting. Only 2 did not get sick... I was one of them. Good enough proof for me...

I will be first in line when the booster shot becomes avaiable...